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Compassion Part III

  • Oct. 12th, 2005 at 7:20 PM
ash snow
So far, most of the rebuttals of my Compassion posts consist of either (a) "you aren't using the words the same way I do" or (b) "you're wrong because you are a stupidhead". Well, I can't do much to show that I'm not a stupidhead, and you are probably right, anyway. However, perhaps I can do something about the first argument.

Compassion


There is such a thing as a desire to understand and relieve the pain of others (ie. it is a desire that happens in reality). The desire itself I call passive compassion. When that desire is acted upon, I call it active compassion. Both the desire and the act are motivated by nothing but Love, which springs from the True Will, and has no end goal other than it's own manifestion, being understanding and the relief of suffering. Yes, there are other techincal definitions of compassion, but I am drawing the distinction here for the sake of articulating distinct principles. Within this post, I request the reader to use this definition when I refer to compassion.

Crowley said it very well when he wrote: "When you can do this sort of thing [ie. helping another in need] as it should be done, without embarrassment, false shame, with your whole heart in your words—do it simply, to sum up—you will find yourself way up on the road to that royal republic which is the ideal of human society."



Pity


I maintain that any other action approximating either passive or active compassion that is motivated by anything else is not true compassion, and is most likely something called pity. The root of pity is a psychological mechanism that has been "hardwired" into us via natural selection. Approximately 97% of the population has this mechanism (the remaining 3% - 4% are referred to as sociopaths, and are completely unaffected by the suffering of others). The evolutionary purpose of it is simple and is summed up in a theory called inclusive fitness, which can be defined as a characterization of how well genetic material is represented in the next generation because of the survival of the group of those relatives who share it. Our ancestors who had a strong response to those in pain tended to have more surviving kin than those who had a weaker response, until those without that response were "selected" out.

As with many of our primitive emotions, they are easily manipulated by our higher level cognitions, and can thereby serve functions other than what they were originally intended to accomplish. Pity is certainly no exception. Crowley pointed out many of the pitfalls that lead to a manipulated pity and a few of the negative consequences that result. Some of the main forms of manipulated pity are:

* The desire to experience the suffering of others out of guilt or self-loathing
* A desire to remove suffering in all cases because suffering induces some form of fear
* A desire to "do good" in order to earn social points
* The Buddhist sense of merging the individual self with the whole via a belief that all existence is sorrow
* The imperialistic form of wanting to relieve people of an "inferior" culture, worldview, or set of behaviors

All forms of manipulated pity fall into four main categories:

1) Attempts to relieve one's own discomfort (guilt, fear, self-loathing, etc)
2) A sense of superiority (knowing what is best for others)
3) A communal worldview (as typified by most Eastern cultures)
4) Greed (doing something solely for the purpose of personal gain, e.g. social status, or resourse maintenance)

It is important to note that none of these things result in compassion (to use the distinction I am drawing), but only a twisted form of pity that has little or nothing to do with Love (expect in the case of the Buddhist, wherein the central issue is one of worldview. I will not be touching on that topic here. I would welcome a Buddhist critique of typical Thelemic views on compassion).

To sum up, the central differences between compassion and pity as I am drawing them are:
* Compassion is motivated by Love, seeks nothing but its own end, and springs from the Will
* Pity is a twisted form of altrusim motivated by things other than Love, seeks either to reduce one's own suffering or to acquire something, and springs from the Mind

Sharing of suffering: A false notion


One of the critiques against compassion is the idea of "sharing" suffering. Let us put this erroneous notion to rest. Unless one believes in the Vulcan mindmeld, no one can "share" in the suffering of another. If someone is starving, and I am not, then no matter how much I want to identify with them, I will not feel what they are feeling until I stop eating. This idea—that empathizing with others—"takes on" another's suffering while pushing out one's own true self—has no basis in fact. It is a pure abstraction used to justify avoidance of helping others. If a friend wins the lottery or gives birth to a healthy baby, is it "unthelemic" to "share" in their happiness? If a daughter comes home beaming with pride because she got an 'A' on the math test, is it a crime against the self to be affected by her pleasure? In either of these cases, is the self betrayed by feeling happy for another?

Of course not (or at least no one says so)! So why do some Thelemites make the distinction between joy and suffering, the first being allowable and the second not? There are multiple answers, but in the case of Crowley, the answer is mostly Social Darwinism.

Social Darwinsim: a discredited philosophy


I have already gone into this, but just to make it clear, Social Darwinsim is a discredited social theory falsly based on the theory of evolution that suggests that those who are weak (depending on how one defines that, but mostly meaning the impoverished, the ill, and the disabled, or otherwise referring to another ethnicity) are holding back the human race and are best left to die off so that the rest of us can evolve. It was very popular in Crowley's day, and much of his writing on the matter closely mimics the main proponents, especially Herbert Spencer. Suffice it to say, this theory was conveniently held almost exclusively by white, rich, educated, and healthy people.

The result of this theory resulted in Crowley's conclusion that those who are (let's face it) not white, rich, educated, and healthy are simply fulfilling their True Wills. In such a model, it is their True Will to be impoverished, disabled, ignorant, and oppressed, and that they are best honored by allowing them to reap the rewards of those states. Of course, it is almost dizzying how many false premises this concept rests upon. If there are those who still believe that this is how society actually works, let me know and I will point you to a few significant works that will disabuse you of this racist, elistist, imperialist notion.

Active Compassion Does Not Injure


So, what does all this mean? Simply that true compassion doesn't actually hurt anyone, either the self or the recipient. The idea that helping someone actually injures them is more than just selfish. It goes against reality at every level. By this logic, there should be no doctors, no psychologists, no police, no firefighters, nobody trained to help people in need. A mother and her daughter sleeping on the side of the road, women who work 12 hours a day in a sweatshop, teens who are molested by their relatives not only should be left alone, but should all be applauded for fulfilling their Wills! What nonsense!

A common argument that has real merit states that providing help makes the less fortunate dependent. This is an honest concern. However, it does not negate compassion; rather, it negates techniques that lead to dependency. True compassion, at the base of it, is about helping remove restrictions and promoting liberty. This can happen on the micro, mezzo, and marco level. Not all solutions work, and some solutions that do work require a temporary increase in suffering. And real solutions are rarely easy.

Active Compassion: The Way of the Strong


This is why compassion is a Path for the Strong...it is much easier to ignore suffering than it is to do something about it. It's easier to give a painkiller than to reset the bone. It's more comfortable to silence the Heart than to let it reach out to others. It's simpler to dismantle social safety nets than to manifest effective ones. It's safer to retreat into Reason than to become open to human experience. Oh yes, compassion is hard. And it is deeply, magnificently Thelemic.

Comments

[info]z111 wrote:
Oct. 13th, 2005 03:46 am (UTC)
The differences you are drawing between pity and compassion don't make a lot of sense to me. IMX, pity tends to mix with revulsion or horror. In India, I saw a man with no legs, no arms, and no wheelchair. He was writhing around on the ground begging. Seeing him filled me with pity, revulsion and horror.

I don't think pity separates the sociopaths from teh rest of us. I think that's more appropriately termed "empathy" which is much closer to compassion than pity.

Compassion comes from the heart and I agree with your premise that it's motivated by love. BUT...I believe compassion can absolutely hurt others. Think about co-dependency. Do you think that's motivated by pity or misplaced compassion?


p.s. your lj stylesheet makes commenting on your journal really hard in my current browser setup. The text in this box is beyond tiny. Please forgive any typos.
[info]ash93 wrote:
Oct. 13th, 2005 04:27 am (UTC)
pity tends to mix with revulsion or horror.

Well sure, pity is a considered a complex emotion, not a basic one (based on cross-cultural studies, the six basic emotions seem to be joy, anger, surprise, sadness, fear, and disgust, with all other emotions being a combination of these). Depending on what one is seeing, it makes complete sense to say that pity can be a mix of all of them (minus joy).

I think that's more appropriately termed "empathy" which is much closer to compassion than pity.

Empathy is a purely cognitive state. It is the ability to imagine how something might be from another point of view. This is certainly one step in active compassion, which requires an understanding of the nature of suffering of another. Empathy also can and almost always does lead to some form of emotion...and does so so quickly that it tends to be experienced as an emotion. Sociopaths can experience this purely cognitive form of empathy, although they tend not to, because, frankly, they don't give a damn.

I believe compassion can absolutely hurt others.

Compassion doesn't hurt people, but poor attempts to relieve suffering sure can. This is why active compassion is an art, with no obvious solutions. It takes imagination, intelligence, perseverence, and backbone.

Interestingly, research in the efficacy of psychotherapy has shown that one of the key ingredients to improvement is the exact kind of compassion I am talking about. There is not one small bit of evidence to show that clients do worse because of compassion on the part of the therapist. To date, the evidence is compelling.

Think about co-dependency. Do you think that's motivated by pity or misplaced compassion.

Co-dependency is largely a survival mechanism that happens to have some nasty side effects. Addiction tends to create chaos and pain, and family members often have little recourse. To deal with such an environment, they will take on and identify with the addicted as a way of coping. I suppose this could be seen as an extremely twisted form of pity, but the difference is that the core motivation is coping with impossible conditions.

The text in this box is beyond tiny.

I have no idea why that is happening. The stylesheet I use comes from LJ...I haven't modified it. If anyone has any advice on how I can change it, I'd be happy to try.
[info]00goddess wrote:
Oct. 13th, 2005 08:58 am (UTC)
The differences you are drawing between pity and compassion don't make a lot of sense to me.

I think the etymology of both words makes the distinctions clearer.
[info]daimonos wrote:
Oct. 13th, 2005 08:25 am (UTC)
Best thing I can find on this is from MWT quouted here
In practice, I begin afresh, it is almost entirely a matter of the point of view. That poor chap looks as if a square meal wouldn't hurt him; and you chuck him a half-crown. You offend his pride, you pauperize him, you make a perfect cad of yourself, and you go off with a glow of having done your good deed for the day. It's all wrong. In such a case, you should make it the request for favour. Say you're "dying for someone to talk to, and would he care to join you in a spot of lunch" at the Ritz, or wherever you feel that he will be the happiest.

When you can do this sort of thing as it should be done, without embarrassment, false shame, with your whole heart in your words—do it simply, to sum up—you will find yourself way up on the road to that royal republic which is the ideal of human society.
This whole thread is a reaction to
"We have nothing with the outcast and the unfit: let them die in their misery. For they feel not. Compassion is the vice of kings: stamp down the wretched & the weak: this is the law of the strong: this is our law and the joy of the world. ..."
It doesn't say, don't help those in need. But I feel dissuaded from feeling sorry for those that could help themselves ('accept the law') but won't.

[info]ash93 wrote:
Oct. 13th, 2005 05:50 pm (UTC)
I think your hitting on a core difference between compassion and pity. Compassion doesn't "feel sorry" for people, whereas pity does. I am a very imperfect Thelemite by my own standards because sometimes I do feel sorry for people (like the Katrina or recent earthquake victims). I can recognize that I have things much better than most people in the world, and I feel sorry that they don't have the same comforts and advantages I do. I am surrounded by the homeless here in San Francisco, and knowing that most are mentally ill, I feel sorry that our society is not willing to do more for them. At the same time, I also have the will to understand and relieve their suffering, which has nothing to do with those feelings. The confusion comes because the two are so alike in many ways.

But I agree that when it comes to people who do have the resources to improve their lot and choose not to anyway, well, my pity runs out very quickly.
[info]mobyjane wrote:
Oct. 13th, 2005 02:08 pm (UTC)
Social Darwinism = Rejecting the Other that is within the Self
Thank you for this lucid and thoughtful post.

I can's help but see a connection to the "social darwinism" you reference and the odd repulsion some folks exhibit for even the word "compassion."

Social Darwinsim ...suggests that those who are weak (depending on how one defines that, but mostly meaning the impoverished, the ill, and the disabled, or otherwise referring to another ethnicity) are holding back the human race and are best left to die off so that the rest of us can evolve.

I think that certain fortunate individuals will react to the misfortune or weakness of others with fear and disgust. They need to defend against seeing any reflection of themselves in the putatively weaker "other." These defenses can be externalized in the form of aggressive logical arguments, and may be blessed by carefully selected social "philosophies," but I suspect that they are motivated by very primitive fear-based survival and ego-defense mechanisms. I think we all do this to varying degrees depending on our tolerance at any given moment for the frightening truths of change, suffering, and death.

Suffice it to say, this theory was conveniently held almost exclusively by white, rich, educated, and healthy people.

Bingo. We say to ourselves, "Those weak, sick, crazy, genetically inferior people are NOT LIKE ME!" Until illness cripples us, or grief or addiction maddens us, we resist any recognition of ourselves within the ugly other. And if we do get a brief glimpse -- perhaps in a moment of pain and darkness -- we sometimes react by turning from the reflection with even more energetic denial. But sometimes, just sometimes, we are jolted open to the truth and we allow the recognition to take root and to blossom into enlightened compassion.

So for me, two of the conditions that permit genuine compassion are self-honesty and courage. Recognizing the small, ugly, and helpless parts within ourselves is more truthful than denying them or projecting them onto someone else. Embracing our vulnerabilities and working to mend the ones we can, while accepting the ones that are simply part of all existence, is far braver than taking flight into grandiose, ego-flattering rationalizations.

Thank you again!
[info]paradoxosalpha wrote:
Oct. 13th, 2005 04:15 pm (UTC)
"Pity ... springs from the Mind"
Did I miss it when you defined "Mind" and/or its relationship to Will?

On the whole, I think you're doing a lot of interesting and thoroughly-reflected writing on this topic. Any chance you'll eventually assemble it into a chapbook for publication through Scarlet Woman or Thelema Lodge?

P.S. Drop me a note--we're behind schedule on some collaborative work.
[info]ash93 wrote:
Oct. 13th, 2005 04:56 pm (UTC)
Re: "Pity ... springs from the Mind"
Drop me a note--we're behind schedule on some collaborative work.

I was just thinking about that this morning...you'll have something in your inbox today...
[info]fraternovaeres wrote:
Oct. 13th, 2005 04:25 pm (UTC)
If Crowley was a Social Darwinist, and Social Darwinism is exactly as you have defined, where did you get the notion that Crowley was a racist who hated the poor, the stupid, and the ill? I have never seen this in his writings, only examples to the contrary. This is a man who found gems in every culture and race, who required a vow of poverty for some OTO degrees, took pride in what the reletively unintelligent could do when they tried (such as Frater Progradior), and was one of the dearest friends of Allan Bennet (who was habitually ill, not to mention that Crowley had some nasty illnesses all his life). Your accusations (however indirect) of the motivations and inclinations of Crowley and his philosophy simply have no basis in reality.
[info]ash93 wrote:
Oct. 13th, 2005 05:25 pm (UTC)
If Crowley was a Social Darwinist, and Social Darwinism is exactly as you have defined, where did you get the notion that Crowley was a racist who hated the poor, the stupid, and the ill?

Oops, straw man (I'm going to start pointing them out, just for fun). Racism doesn't have to be about hate (eg. KKK-style bigotry), it's about maintaining privilege at the cost of others. Social Darwinism props up a social construct that does exactly that. And if you really have to ask what Crowley thought of people who were poor, uneducated, and disabled, then you either haven't read Crowley or are ignoring those less flattering parts.

Here is a quote from a letter to Grady:

"You should read the book called "Ouroboros" by G. Garrett, published by Kegan Paul. The author shews very clearly how the multiplication table has upset civilisation; you might draw a parallel between the present-day and the fall of the Roman Empire, when the Pax Romana had suddenly made the world smaller, at the same time hindering Nature's method of elimination of the unfit. The result is being repeated before our eyes. It always happens when a new Magus appears with a new Word for a new Aeon."

PS. Bennet was a friend of Crowley's. Social Darwinism deals with groups, not individuals (unless they happen to be not white or otherwise different enough). Really, I can provide more quotes that are almost verbatim examples of Spencer's work. To deny that Crowley swallowed this philosophy whole is simply denial at this point. I suggest doing your own research on it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Darwinism
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761579584/Social_Darwinism.html
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/darwin/nameof/
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/spencer-darwin.html

Then read anything Crowley had to say about evolution, compassion, pity, the "unfit", or any social issue dealing with the uneducated, disabled, and poor. Do a Google search and have fun.
[info]fraternovaeres wrote:
Oct. 13th, 2005 09:06 pm (UTC)
You're avoiding the question
Then read anything Crowley had to say about evolution, compassion, pity, the "unfit", or any social issue dealing with the uneducated, disabled, and poor. Do a Google search and have fun.

Where in Crowley's work does it say that, for example, black people are unfit? Where in his work does me make these very specific claims?

What, in reality, did Crowley consider an unfit person? I think you'll find his definition and your projected definition are very different.

Here is a quote from a letter to Grady.

That quote says nothing about poor people, races, sexes, health, or intelligence levels. Once again, you're avoiding the question and propping up a weak, unsubstantiated argument. Who is the straw man?
[info]ash93 wrote:
Oct. 13th, 2005 09:20 pm (UTC)
Re: You're avoiding the question
Very clever, padawan. You are trying to eliminate the obvious by bringing in similar but unrelated arguments. I never said that Crowley was a bigot, or that he hated black people in particular. So, we can let that one go.

I realize that you don't want to think that Crowley was a Social Darwinist. It's painful to see the flaws in our heros. I have no advice to give you. I have layed out the evidence, and I believe it is compelling and overwhelming. If you need to turn a blind eye to it, or excuse it, then that is your business. Crowley's writings speak for themselves, and you either accept Social Darwinism or you don't. It's up to you.
[info]fraternovaeres wrote:
Oct. 13th, 2005 10:30 pm (UTC)
Re: You're avoiding the question
These are not unrelated. Mendaxveritas has layed out clearly why and in what ways Crowley is not a Social Darwinist. Again, this has no basis in reality.

You demonstrate an inability to examine implications. Crowley's writings speak for themselves... They certainly do. I'm asking where in Crowley's writings you got the idea that he was a Social Darwinist, or that he believed the "unfit" and the "weak" were functions relative to race, gender, economic class, and degree of health. I've read a decent amount of Crowley, and I have never seen this. Ever. Anywhere. If you can or refuse to provide an example, then it is fair to assume that an example does not exist.
[info]ash93 wrote:
Oct. 13th, 2005 10:43 pm (UTC)
Re: You're avoiding the question
No, he's tried to save Crowley a position he clearly accepted. It's easy to find exceptions, but they don't negate his overall stance, which is repeated again and again.

You demonstrate an inability to examine implications.

That's because I give my readers the benefit of the doubt that they can discover them on their own. If you cannot see the connection between Crowley's (i.e. Social Darwinism's) generalalities regarding the weak and unfit with race, gender, class, and disability, you are simply refusing to see it. One does not have to hate blacks to be a racist. I will let you work out on your own how that is possible.
[info]fraternovaeres wrote:
Oct. 13th, 2005 11:02 pm (UTC)
Re: You're avoiding the question
You've been taking refuge in generalities because to examine specifics would annihilate your argument. By your own admission:

Also, just to make it clear, I'm not really all that interested in debating the issue in minute detail.

And that is why. Because when we look at those "minute" details, the facts, your argument doesn't stand on its own legs.

All I want is for you to answer the question, give me a quote, a page number, something, where Crowley says that the titles "unfit" and "weak" are functions of race, sex, socio-economic class, and degree of health as you have here and elsewhere indicated that he has.
[info]omegabaphomet wrote:
Oct. 13th, 2005 08:09 pm (UTC)
Social Darwinsim: a discredited philosophy: I have already gone into this, but just to make it clear, Social Darwinsim is a discredited social theory falsly based on the theory of evolution that suggests that those who are weak (depending on how one defines that, but mostly meaning the impoverished, the ill, and the disabled, or otherwise referring to another ethnicity) are holding back the human race and are best left to die off so that the rest of us can evolve.

This is a total strawman argument. You've defined "social darwinism" a certain way, way that you can conveniently attack, and then you aim it anything that applies evolutionary thinking to sociology. As soon as someone applies darwinian thinking to sociology, you break out the "Social Darwinism" strawman and attack it. In fact, not every application of evolutionary thinking thinks that the weak are "holding back the human race and are best left to die off so that the rest of us can evolve" as you suggest.

I've been telling you that you are thinking wrong about this for years, and you won't listen, so I doubt I can change your mind. Someday you will have a PhD in Psychology, and you will have even further immunized your thinking from this criticism, so all I can really do is hold my nose.

Your strawman "Social Darwinism" construct plays right into your theories of compassion, so it isn't hard to imagine why I don't follow your thinking on this subject very far.
[info]ash93 wrote:
Oct. 13th, 2005 08:39 pm (UTC)
This is a total strawman argument. You've defined "social darwinism" a certain way, way that you can conveniently attack, and then you aim it anything that applies evolutionary thinking to sociology.

The problem with your argument is that it isn't my definition. It is how Spencer and his followers defined it. I challenge you to find a definition of Social Darwinism that doesn't, in some form, contain the basic idea that there are "strong" people and "weak" people, and that the best thing that "weak" people can do for humankind is to politely die off, or at least to stop complaining when they are exploited. All I'm doing is illustrating how closely Crowley's writings on these topics mimic Spencer's, and it makes a lot of people uncomfortable. You are welcome to draw different conclusions, but it will take a lot of twisting and turning. I know you respect Occam's Razor...what is more likely: that Crowley's writings mimicked Social Darwinism (which was hugely popular in his day among his contemporaries) but really meant something completely different, or that it mimicked Social Darwinism because Crowley subscribed to it?
[info]31seel wrote:
Oct. 13th, 2005 08:40 pm (UTC)
Social Darwinism
So, you actually have works that show that those who are most successful in a society are not those most adapted to the needs and dictates of said society? I would love to see that, it would be amusing.

I am pretty sure the Neanderthals objected to Evolution as well.
[info]ash93 wrote:
Oct. 13th, 2005 08:54 pm (UTC)
Re: Social Darwinism
This comment perfectly captures exactly the attitude that Crowley accepted as his basis for banning compassion. Thank you.
[info]31seel wrote:
Oct. 13th, 2005 08:55 pm (UTC)
Re: Social Darwinism
Is there success?
[info]31seel wrote:
Oct. 13th, 2005 08:42 pm (UTC)
The Vice of Kings
Are you a King, or are you a Slave playing with the Master's snuff box?
[info]ash93 wrote:
Oct. 13th, 2005 08:51 pm (UTC)
Re: The Vice of Kings
I know the answer...mostly because I know I don't like snuff. :)
[info]31seel wrote:
Oct. 13th, 2005 08:59 pm (UTC)
Re: The Vice of Kings
But you have spent much time professing your love for the addictive stuff.
[info]ash93 wrote:
Oct. 13th, 2005 09:03 pm (UTC)
Re: The Vice of Kings
Arg! You...you GOT me, sherrif... *rattle*
[info]31seel wrote:
Oct. 13th, 2005 09:18 pm (UTC)
Re: The Vice of Kings
Perhaps you would find more arguments that fit outside your dichotomy if you actually engaged.
[info]ash93 wrote:
Oct. 13th, 2005 09:23 pm (UTC)
Re: The Vice of Kings
Engage with what? Your thinly veiled insults? Why should I? To what benefit might it accomplish? Have I asked enough questions yet?
[info]31seel wrote:
Oct. 13th, 2005 09:26 pm (UTC)
Re: The Vice of Kings
Interesting how you perceived my statements as insulting.

If there are Kings & Slaves, and a King is defined as one consciously doing their will, by virtue of the definitions all those who are not in communion with their HGA are Slaves.

Why do you find insult?
[info]ash93 wrote:
Oct. 13th, 2005 09:38 pm (UTC)
Re: The Vice of Kings
Go back and read you own posts, and see if you can't imagine how insinuating that I am a slave isn't perhaps slightly insulting. Don't worry, I wasn't actually insulted, but I give you credit for trying.

As to the other, you answered your own question: since pure compassion springs from the Will (perhaps can be poetically said to be the voice of the HGA), then I suppose that makes an honestly compassionate person a King. Compassion is the vice of Kings, after all. :) (C'mon, surely you saw that one coming?)
[info]31seel wrote:
Oct. 13th, 2005 09:55 pm (UTC)
Re: The Vice of Kings
I find it amusing that you react so strongly to the term slaves & yet you claim compassion. I suppose you do not see the contradiction.

"Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? There is more hope of a fool, than of him." (Book 30:5)

I don't have to imagine how it would be insulting -- to an unenlightened mainstream mentality. I have no fear of my limitation, and I endeavor for an honest assessment of my progress.

"Pure" Compassion would indeed come from a king, but there are two errors, the assumption of kingship & the assumption that by imitating the vices one will gain kingship. I am reminded of those folk who slam heroin so as to gain the magickal insight of Crowley.
[info]ash93 wrote:
Oct. 13th, 2005 10:05 pm (UTC)
Re: The Vice of Kings
Okay, well, thank you for sharing.
[info]31seel wrote:
Oct. 13th, 2005 10:32 pm (UTC)
Re: The Vice of Kings
Take care, the downslide of addiction is a real bum trip.
[info]ash93 wrote:
Oct. 13th, 2005 10:40 pm (UTC)
Re: The Vice of Kings
In this case, a Kingly trip! :P When the Will is lived, care is not needed. But I appreciate your compassion.
[info]31seel wrote:
Oct. 13th, 2005 10:44 pm (UTC)
Re: The Vice of Kings
The King is not addicted, I refer you to Liber AL. Can you support the assertion that care is unnecessary when one is doing one's will? No appreciation is necessary, as the concern is abstract given that I don't know you.
[info]ash93 wrote:
Oct. 13th, 2005 10:51 pm (UTC)
Re: The Vice of Kings
The King is not addicted, I refer you to Liber AL.

It's amazing how much we agree upon.

Can you support the assertion that care is unnecessary when one is doing one's will?

*sigh* No, I can't support it. Some knowledge is beyond words. Believe what you want.

No appreciation is necessary, as the concern is abstract given that I don't know you.

That's the beauty and utility of compassion...it can happen with complete strangers. And abstractions are fine...that can often times be exactly where compassion begins...you wanted to understand how I was "addicted" and then you expressed a desire for me to be relieved of that burden. The fact that you are wrong about the presense of suffering is not important in this case...the primary thing is the intent to help another who might be suffering.

Don't feel bad about that. I've seen strong evidence of compassion from several of it's most ardent detractors here on LJ.
[info]31seel wrote:
Oct. 13th, 2005 11:11 pm (UTC)
Re: The Vice of Kings
.....